B4TM4N
05-18-2009, 05:18 AM
2005 ML 350 (w163) vs. 2008 ML 350 (w164)
I've always wanted to write something like this up, but never got around to it. This is just a mini and informal comparison. Who knows, maybe it'll help you out one day if it ever comes time to be your decision to make.
We used to have an ML 320 when it first came out back in 1999. If I recall correctly, the vehicle debuted when Jurassic Park: The Lost World just came out and it was the vehicle of choice that they used to tour their Dino Island (Site B). I just used it to tour Bayview Avenue back and forth everyday.
Now since I can't remember that far back, this is going to be a comparison of the post-facelifted model and the new one, or else I would have added a comparison between pre and post facelift w163 MLs.
2005 ML 350 (w163)
The ML 320 was one of the first SUVs to hit the market and was very likely the first luxury-segment SUV back in 1997. Naturally the ML 350 came to mind in 2005 when we were searching for an SUV, considering having been in the market for about 8 years.
The ML 350 was also amongst (if not THE) first vehicle to debut a new 3.5L V6 motor outputting 272hp. This was a necessary upgrade for a heavy, truck-like vehicle because the previous 3.2L model felt a little underpowered for its weight and only bearing about 220hp. The w163 was still a large, chunky feeling vehicle to drive. Though it was given the external and internal face-lift (including clear front headlamps instead of the frosted lights as well as an updated interior and tiptronic gearbox), it still did not feel that comfortable to drive. It did not have the luxury, sedan-like feel that a Lexus RX 330 had, nor did it have the sport sensation you would find in a Cayenne or an Infiniti FX35. The size of the vehicle was smaller than an X5 and the only decent thing about the car was the badge it carried on its front grill. As much as I loved the brand, it wasn't exactly one of my top choices for a daily driver or winter rider. The steering was always a little tough and it always gives me the feeling that maybe it was lacking power-steering fluid or something. The throttle response was decent, but often times when I tried to tiptronic myself down a gear, there was usually a lag-time longer than the typical hesitation that you'd expect in an automatic tiptronicable car.
One thing I liked about it was that when you hit the eject button on the COMAND unit, there was still a traditional tape-deck hidden behind the display unit. This is great for those who still have the converter wire that lets you hook up a tape-deck to other sorts of audio devices such as an MD player or iPod. In the SLK or (facelifted) C-class, there was neither a tape-deck, nor was there a place for an AUX wire. You pretty much had to sign up for a Costco membership just to buy loads of CDs. One thing I like better from the w163 model vs. the w164 model is that the seats seemed to feel softer and slightly more comfortable. Newer ones always seem to feel sportier and sportier (thus stiffer and stiffer).
Another thing that was (arguable here) decent was that the 6 CD changer was hidden away in the trunk of the vehicle. This allows for larger glove compartment room since it did not have to use up the space. Typically I find that I don't have to fiddle around with CDs too often when there's the option of a 6 CD magazine cartridge in the car so it's designated location was never too much of an issue. Only time this can be a bit of a hassle is when you have more than 6 CDs and you'd really like to switch one up halfway through a 5-hour road-trip. You'd have to either stop on the side of a road or send a passenger to crawl to the trunk while driving and attract the cops' attention. Either way, you'd be forced to pull over. For an update to the ML 320, it was a great car, but for it's time (2005) it was starting to feel outdated when compared to its competitors in the market.
2008 ML 350 (w164)
Anyways, so we picked this up yesterday. It's a 2008 ML 350.
It's a comfy car and feels much sportier than the 2005 model. Though I believe it's the same motor, it just feels different. Paddle button/shifters make a bit of difference in drive-feel. Interior definately feels roomier and there is the added space convenience now that the traditional shifter has been replaced with the old-style lever.
This one comes loaded with Keyless-Go, Sunroof, Harmon-Kardon sound system with 6 CD changer. Unlike the previous model, the 6 CD changer lies concealed in the glove compartment and can appear with the touch of a button labeled CDC. This ML also has navigation (COMAND), as well as a back-up camera that I find very handy for large vehicles. I don't know what colour that exactly is but it's some sort of lightbluish/silver thing. The colour is borderline baby-blue, which means it's borderline gay. I haven't quite figured it out yet. What's great is now there is also a keyless trunk open/close button which is very convenient for soccer moms to use this as a grocery-getter. I'm not a soccer-mom, but I do like the fact that I can now use the trunk to fan myself if I park it close to my picnic bench. In terms of styling, I think they did a great job compared to the older style (w163) ML. It used to look very boxy and almost too tall. In fact, it sorta reminded me of an AT-AT from Star Wars.
=
Now it is more rounded out and feels much more aggressive. The turning circle, although feel very similar, has a slight improvement in the w164, though I can’t be 100% sure because of the steering-feel and the snow on the ground didn't show the tracks very well. One final thing I noticed was that the gas tank was moved back to the right side like a typical German car. I could be wrong, but it seems like every single Benz out there has the gas tank on the right side. I always remembered Japanese cars (with Subaru being an exception) having it on the left.
Overall I think it's a great improvement compared to the w163. I can't think of anything I particularly liked better from the original model. To me the w164 is bigger and better in every way possible.
Someone in another forum asked about the reliability of the w163. Well what I can say is, in the 3 years we've had it, I've only had one issue in the very, very beginning. I was driving on the 401 and when I went to upshift, it didn't switch to the next gear, instead it held that gear and when it got to redline and still wouldn't shift, I got a little scared and pulled into an offramp to stop for a bit.
Hmm, come to think of it I think someone said it was an oil issue and it might have been on the first w163. That one was 1998 ML 320. Actually, now that I think about it, I've never had any issues with this one. If there's one thing, this one is actually quite reliable. Winter-driven all 3 years (obviously) and there is over 60,000km on it. No issues. Electronics never failed, traction control was surprisingly good, power was fine, and the only negative time was when I got stuck in snow because my tires were pretty bald. I looked very silly, but that's about it.
A few additional points from a member on another forum:
The first ML320 (W163) went on the market in the fall of 1997 as a 1998 model, new plant in Tuscaloosa, innovative truck with a frame and body construction, 2 speed transfer case, with superb and impressive off road capabilites...similar to a junior G Class.
It was also the vehicle that had the uneviable honour of initiating M-B's quality decline, for a very simple reason the mechanicals of the truck were excellent, and to meet the price point establiched by MBUSA at the time they started cutting cost in the body and interior.
Initial extreme pent up demand for the truck, followed by subsequent extreme criticism, overall a good truck very capable in all sitations, the 3.2 was weak when the 4.3 V8 arrived sales shot up again, although the 4.3 like the later 5.0 would average 17L/100 klms.
SUV's are lifestyle vehicles that segment is very competitive, the M Class was comparable to the old school SUV's with inherant off road capabilities....the market was shifting to cars disguised as SUV's namely X5 - RX300 and M-B waited a few additonal years to change the M Class.
With the arrival of the W164 the truck is now uni body, no 2 speed transfer case, it does not have the off road capabilities of the previous W163. Nicer interior, especially the Alcantara, air suspension, same fuel economy.
The diesel version is the model to get in the W164....
Find the battery in the W164?
-HR
And he's absolutely right. The older one does feel more rugged and I was thinking that while driving the newer one to work today. When I used to drive it, I felt like I could actually drive over a lot of random things. We drove it through curbs, fields, snow, dirt, traffic islands, sidewalks, and whatever else you can find in your neighbourhood. Although this one feels more technologically up-to-date, it's almost too fragile to be a real SUV. Thanks for the additional input. I totally forgot about the 430 and 500 models. The 430 was pretty common for a while. I remember seeing a whole chunk of them roaming around back in the days
Another note to add from the same member:
The W163 had a rugged truck underpinning to do serious off roading which most folks don't do, a W163 in low range would go through snow almost up to the hood, its a pity that the bumpers were plastic and fragile.
The interior of the W164 is much nicer with more features, it responds to what the market is looking for...any 4x4 without a low range is not adept or suited for off roading.
-HR
I've always wanted to write something like this up, but never got around to it. This is just a mini and informal comparison. Who knows, maybe it'll help you out one day if it ever comes time to be your decision to make.
We used to have an ML 320 when it first came out back in 1999. If I recall correctly, the vehicle debuted when Jurassic Park: The Lost World just came out and it was the vehicle of choice that they used to tour their Dino Island (Site B). I just used it to tour Bayview Avenue back and forth everyday.
Now since I can't remember that far back, this is going to be a comparison of the post-facelifted model and the new one, or else I would have added a comparison between pre and post facelift w163 MLs.
2005 ML 350 (w163)
The ML 320 was one of the first SUVs to hit the market and was very likely the first luxury-segment SUV back in 1997. Naturally the ML 350 came to mind in 2005 when we were searching for an SUV, considering having been in the market for about 8 years.
The ML 350 was also amongst (if not THE) first vehicle to debut a new 3.5L V6 motor outputting 272hp. This was a necessary upgrade for a heavy, truck-like vehicle because the previous 3.2L model felt a little underpowered for its weight and only bearing about 220hp. The w163 was still a large, chunky feeling vehicle to drive. Though it was given the external and internal face-lift (including clear front headlamps instead of the frosted lights as well as an updated interior and tiptronic gearbox), it still did not feel that comfortable to drive. It did not have the luxury, sedan-like feel that a Lexus RX 330 had, nor did it have the sport sensation you would find in a Cayenne or an Infiniti FX35. The size of the vehicle was smaller than an X5 and the only decent thing about the car was the badge it carried on its front grill. As much as I loved the brand, it wasn't exactly one of my top choices for a daily driver or winter rider. The steering was always a little tough and it always gives me the feeling that maybe it was lacking power-steering fluid or something. The throttle response was decent, but often times when I tried to tiptronic myself down a gear, there was usually a lag-time longer than the typical hesitation that you'd expect in an automatic tiptronicable car.
One thing I liked about it was that when you hit the eject button on the COMAND unit, there was still a traditional tape-deck hidden behind the display unit. This is great for those who still have the converter wire that lets you hook up a tape-deck to other sorts of audio devices such as an MD player or iPod. In the SLK or (facelifted) C-class, there was neither a tape-deck, nor was there a place for an AUX wire. You pretty much had to sign up for a Costco membership just to buy loads of CDs. One thing I like better from the w163 model vs. the w164 model is that the seats seemed to feel softer and slightly more comfortable. Newer ones always seem to feel sportier and sportier (thus stiffer and stiffer).
Another thing that was (arguable here) decent was that the 6 CD changer was hidden away in the trunk of the vehicle. This allows for larger glove compartment room since it did not have to use up the space. Typically I find that I don't have to fiddle around with CDs too often when there's the option of a 6 CD magazine cartridge in the car so it's designated location was never too much of an issue. Only time this can be a bit of a hassle is when you have more than 6 CDs and you'd really like to switch one up halfway through a 5-hour road-trip. You'd have to either stop on the side of a road or send a passenger to crawl to the trunk while driving and attract the cops' attention. Either way, you'd be forced to pull over. For an update to the ML 320, it was a great car, but for it's time (2005) it was starting to feel outdated when compared to its competitors in the market.
2008 ML 350 (w164)
Anyways, so we picked this up yesterday. It's a 2008 ML 350.
It's a comfy car and feels much sportier than the 2005 model. Though I believe it's the same motor, it just feels different. Paddle button/shifters make a bit of difference in drive-feel. Interior definately feels roomier and there is the added space convenience now that the traditional shifter has been replaced with the old-style lever.
This one comes loaded with Keyless-Go, Sunroof, Harmon-Kardon sound system with 6 CD changer. Unlike the previous model, the 6 CD changer lies concealed in the glove compartment and can appear with the touch of a button labeled CDC. This ML also has navigation (COMAND), as well as a back-up camera that I find very handy for large vehicles. I don't know what colour that exactly is but it's some sort of lightbluish/silver thing. The colour is borderline baby-blue, which means it's borderline gay. I haven't quite figured it out yet. What's great is now there is also a keyless trunk open/close button which is very convenient for soccer moms to use this as a grocery-getter. I'm not a soccer-mom, but I do like the fact that I can now use the trunk to fan myself if I park it close to my picnic bench. In terms of styling, I think they did a great job compared to the older style (w163) ML. It used to look very boxy and almost too tall. In fact, it sorta reminded me of an AT-AT from Star Wars.
=
Now it is more rounded out and feels much more aggressive. The turning circle, although feel very similar, has a slight improvement in the w164, though I can’t be 100% sure because of the steering-feel and the snow on the ground didn't show the tracks very well. One final thing I noticed was that the gas tank was moved back to the right side like a typical German car. I could be wrong, but it seems like every single Benz out there has the gas tank on the right side. I always remembered Japanese cars (with Subaru being an exception) having it on the left.
Overall I think it's a great improvement compared to the w163. I can't think of anything I particularly liked better from the original model. To me the w164 is bigger and better in every way possible.
Someone in another forum asked about the reliability of the w163. Well what I can say is, in the 3 years we've had it, I've only had one issue in the very, very beginning. I was driving on the 401 and when I went to upshift, it didn't switch to the next gear, instead it held that gear and when it got to redline and still wouldn't shift, I got a little scared and pulled into an offramp to stop for a bit.
Hmm, come to think of it I think someone said it was an oil issue and it might have been on the first w163. That one was 1998 ML 320. Actually, now that I think about it, I've never had any issues with this one. If there's one thing, this one is actually quite reliable. Winter-driven all 3 years (obviously) and there is over 60,000km on it. No issues. Electronics never failed, traction control was surprisingly good, power was fine, and the only negative time was when I got stuck in snow because my tires were pretty bald. I looked very silly, but that's about it.
A few additional points from a member on another forum:
The first ML320 (W163) went on the market in the fall of 1997 as a 1998 model, new plant in Tuscaloosa, innovative truck with a frame and body construction, 2 speed transfer case, with superb and impressive off road capabilites...similar to a junior G Class.
It was also the vehicle that had the uneviable honour of initiating M-B's quality decline, for a very simple reason the mechanicals of the truck were excellent, and to meet the price point establiched by MBUSA at the time they started cutting cost in the body and interior.
Initial extreme pent up demand for the truck, followed by subsequent extreme criticism, overall a good truck very capable in all sitations, the 3.2 was weak when the 4.3 V8 arrived sales shot up again, although the 4.3 like the later 5.0 would average 17L/100 klms.
SUV's are lifestyle vehicles that segment is very competitive, the M Class was comparable to the old school SUV's with inherant off road capabilities....the market was shifting to cars disguised as SUV's namely X5 - RX300 and M-B waited a few additonal years to change the M Class.
With the arrival of the W164 the truck is now uni body, no 2 speed transfer case, it does not have the off road capabilities of the previous W163. Nicer interior, especially the Alcantara, air suspension, same fuel economy.
The diesel version is the model to get in the W164....
Find the battery in the W164?
-HR
And he's absolutely right. The older one does feel more rugged and I was thinking that while driving the newer one to work today. When I used to drive it, I felt like I could actually drive over a lot of random things. We drove it through curbs, fields, snow, dirt, traffic islands, sidewalks, and whatever else you can find in your neighbourhood. Although this one feels more technologically up-to-date, it's almost too fragile to be a real SUV. Thanks for the additional input. I totally forgot about the 430 and 500 models. The 430 was pretty common for a while. I remember seeing a whole chunk of them roaming around back in the days
Another note to add from the same member:
The W163 had a rugged truck underpinning to do serious off roading which most folks don't do, a W163 in low range would go through snow almost up to the hood, its a pity that the bumpers were plastic and fragile.
The interior of the W164 is much nicer with more features, it responds to what the market is looking for...any 4x4 without a low range is not adept or suited for off roading.
-HR